follow up

Warm Buyer Lead Process

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Most of the buyers that I deal with either find me online or are referred to me by someone I know. That doesn’t mean I’m not interviewing to work with them or that I’m not otherwise on trial.

It usually begins as an email or a form they fill out on my website or sometimes as a text message. Almost never is this a phone call.

I greet them and then I move on to selling the appointment. I’m not selling them a house or anything else. The only thing I’m focused on is selling the appointment. I either want to get face-to-face (ideal, if they’re local) or on the phone.

It’s usually easier to justify the phone call as a first measure. It’s easy to do because I can step them up by selling them on a “quick phone call when it’s convenient for them.” If they’re warm (which all these kinds of leads are), this is rarely met with any resistance.

Once I get them on the phone, I—casually—work through the questions that I want answered. I qualify them. I usually begin by encouraging them to explain their situation to me. 1 Once they’ve finished, I’ll reiterate some of what they’ve said back to them, “You’re living in Virginia with your wife but you’re moving back up and want to begin your home search in the spring. That makes sense,” and then I’ll move into some questions that I have. I’ll usually preface this question-asking by saying something like, “I just have a few questions for my process that I’ll ask you now. Does that sound alright?” Then I’ll move through my qualifying questions. 2

  • What’s the best email for you?
  • How do I spell your last name (if that’s not already known)?
  • You mentioned your (spouse, wife, husband, children, dog, aunt, etc.). Is it just them that’s moving with you? (Identify the decisionmakers)
  • Great. What is/are their name(s)?
  • What do you expect is your budget? 3
  • Are you preapproved?
  • Are you open to speaking to my number 1 mortgage professional (whether they’re preapproved or not, I sell the relationship because he’s excellent at what he does and it makes a big difference in the experience)?
  • What’s your timeframe/when would you like to be settled?
  • What do you expect from someone in my position?
  • Do you have a house to sell?

I don’t robotically go through these questions unless there’s an utter lack of rapport, then sometimes it does feel a bit forced. I go through these questions conversationally with context added in and around them. With the question about what their expectations are, I might begin by saying something like, “You’ve bought a house before/sold a house before,” or, “Maybe you’ve never bought or sold a house before, but maybe you’ve dealt with an attorney or a financial advisor where the person you were interacting with was in a position to help you with an important matter. In situations like that one as well as our situation, what sort of things are important to you or do you expect from the person that’s in my role?”

In this portion, it’s pretty natural to touch on agency and why it’s important to have a relationship with an agent that is on a client level rather than a customer level. Today, the prospect mentioned that it seemed like their agent—when they bought their current home—was only showing them houses that the agent wanted and was less inclined to show them houses they wanted to see. I explained that usually in this situation, which is a common complaint among consumers, the agent was likely trying to steer them toward listings the agent or the agent’s office represented because there was a financial incentive to do so. I went on to explain that this is why it’s important to have a buyer agent who respects the nature of the fiduciary relationship and is out to represent the client and their best interests, not the other way around. This is a useful pre-frame for setting the second appointment/call where you review paperwork and secure the client.

If there’s some rapport, the conversation should flow somewhat smoothly.

Once I get through these, the next step is to sell the appointment/second appointment. 4 I’m working to establish the next steps as I’m concluding my conversation. If they’ve agreed to talk to the lender, I’m explaining that I’ll be sending them an email once we hang up so they’ll have my contact information and I’ll also include the mortgage professional’s contact information. If they’d prefer, I can have the lender reach out directly to them so it’s one less thing they have to think about. 5

The next step from there is to set up a time so we dig further into the agency laws and discuss more about what it looks like to form a representative relationship. At this point, too, we can really dial in the home search criteria and set up an automatic search using the MLS so they can begin seeing properties.

When’s a good time for them? This will either be a phone call or a face-to-face appointment. Depending on the level of rapport, I may insist on the spouse being present. If they’re not local, it’s difficult to justify their driving to meet me at an office or public place for this purpose, especially when we can e-sign everything. If they are local, that’s almost always my approach, but I’m backing off trying to get non-local people to drive to meet me just so we can review the paperwork. The warmest of them will, but I think it’s more of a challenge than most people are willing to bear. So opt for the phone call with one or both and review the client paperwork together to answer questions like you would in person. This is where you secure the client, and that’s the second step in the buyer process.

  • Step 1 – Secure the appointment/call
  • Step 2 – (Secure the second appointment/call so you can…) Secure the client
  1. This will be what their current situation is, who all is involved, etc. ↩︎
  2. I’ll write out these questions in a note in my CRM so I can type them in during the call and just click save. I used to keep them in my Notes app under a folder called Buyer Notes (and Seller Notes). I still will grab quick stuff there as it comes up but the CRM is the ultimate storage place for all things people. ↩︎
  3. Their response will tell you how much they’re aware of their ability to buy. Some people have this very dialed in, others will speak in terms of a monthly payment, and others will take a stab, arbitrarily, at a dollar amount for the house. It’s less about what they say and more about how they say it so you can intuit, in the moment, how to proceed. This question sets up your tonality and approach for the next two questions. ↩︎
  4. If I got the appointment in the first place rather than the call, I’ll go through all these things in person. I’ll almost always have at least a quick call before scheduling the appointment in person. ↩︎
  5. Usually this has appeal to it, assuming they’re open to the conversation with the LO. ↩︎
Warm Buyer Lead Process

Never Judge the Lead

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Here’s how I almost threw away a $1,250,000 lead.

The day before yesterday, I showed a $725,000 house to a buyer I connected with through Zillow.

I’ve primarily done referral-based business for the last three years, with some early help from Zillow and Bold Leads. We recently decided to throw some money at Zillow because we’ve heard from so many people (watched so many people) significantly augment their business with it.

That being said, I don’t love it. I get the value, but the forced intro, the expectation that I’m going to get you your appointment in 45 seconds, the expectation of seeing a home together before meeting in person to talk and form a client relationship — these things all go against the grain of what I’ve done for a while.1

So, I got connected with this guy. He seemed a little terse or timid (couldn’t tell) on the phone, but I hung up, scheduled the appointment with the list broker, called him back to confirm, and sent him a subsequent email with the showing packet.

He doesn’t respond to the email… Alright. Whatever.

The next day, I finish a late-morning listing appointment and head to the general area where I’ll meet this guy.2 I have lunch. Then I called to confirm the appointment.3 He doesn’t answer.

At this point, I’m saying f-it and going for it with the hopes that maybe it will all come together. And if not, I’ll autopsy it and get better with my process — especially around these strange leads I’m not used to.4

I pull up. Nice house, amazing view, excellent plot of land. I’m pulling up the long driveway after driving up the long road, and two cars are in the driveway. A man and a woman (the listing broker is a woman), a late-90s drop-top Mercedes SLK, and a black Chrysler 300. Here goes.

Turns out, the Chrysler is here from the owner, and the SLK is the buyers’, and it’s him and his wife. They’re friendly and pleasant. All is good.

The other agent shows up. She’s a stud that’s been doing it for 100 years. She walks us in around up and down and talks the whole time. Little for me to say other than my little noises affirming what she’s saying and occasionally chiming in.

We finish up, say goodbye to the list broker, and go to depart. He thanks me for my time and getting them in there, shakes my hand, and says take care. The wife shakes my hand and says it was nice to meet me.

What would you think or feel when you got into your car and they were already driving away?

Did they really just want to see the house and are otherwise not interested in anything? Did I not say enough, or did I say something wrong or something that bothered them? Did I seem desperate?

Mind you, the showing was positive. All was good, or as good as one could expect, regarding establishing rapport with people you met in the last thirty minutes. But there was no, “We’re going to think it over,” or, “What do you think?” or, “We’re going to chat and let’s touch base later.” I had to insert something to that end and was met with no affirmation in return other than them saying it was nice to meet me.

So, I’m driving away thinking I just wasted a goddamn afternoon on this. Not to mention money and resources.

Something Brian Moses taught me was to never judge the lead. He hammered that, and I didn’t understand it at first. As time has gone on, I’ve grown to understand it more.

I knew these people just fucking blew me off. Still, I persisted.

Internet, or the lack of it available there, was a concern they mentioned. A large one. The wife works from home, and the husband owns a company and needs to be accessible even when he’s not at work.

Best you can do up there is satellite internet. The listing broker texted me later and said she spoke with a neighbor, and they said they had a high-speed provider. I had the thought of suggesting Starlink as well. So, I put together a simple email explaining that I couldn’t verify the availability of the Internet provider online but that they still may be worth a call. I mentioned, too, that Starlink was another option that appeared to be available, and I included screenshots and links and such.

No reply.

At this point, I expected that he wouldn’t reply to the email. I planned to call him yesterday to follow up on it and get some feedback.

That I did. I called him yesterday afternoon before I left with my family for a weekend getaway. No answer.

I left him a voicemail with something to the effect of, “Hey ________, it’s Sam. Give me a call when you get a second? 603-____-_____. Thanks.”

I expected I wouldn’t hear from him.

As we drove north to Lake Winnipesaukee, I got a call back. Spoke with him and he told me that, while the house was interesting and had beautiful views and a nice lot, it needed too much work. He explained some more about his reasoning and told me to let him know if something came up that checked those boxes or if the price on this one trended downward.

Fuck me, right?

It was fine. Everything was fine. But I about talked myself out of wanting to deal with this guy. I had begun to convince myself that he was just a jerk who didn’t care about wasting my time and didn’t even have the respect to call me (or respond to me) to let me know he wasn’t interested.

I was wrong. Never judge the lead. That’s. a $700,000+ buyer lead and a $500,000+ seller lead. That’s a $1,250,000+/- lead!

And I was about to flush it because I judged the lead. Thanks, Brian.5

  1. I’m trying to be open-minded in the interest of generating new business and leaving no lead source unexploited. ↩︎
  2. My immediate marketplace has next-to-no Zillow availability. So, I bought some in a small city about half an hour from my office. Not a place where I love to work, but the only viable option to experiment with Zillow. ↩︎
  3. This is typically not something I do. I want to show up and have them not be there so I can have a justifiable position of what-the-fuck for when we next talk because it puts me in more of a powerful position in the relationship. Unless they’re very callous (or if they just never respond again), they’re typically apologetic and regretful and experience the burden of reciprocity. In this situation, I didn’t want to drive another 20 minutes farther away and have this guy not even be there. Mainly because the showing was assisted, and I’d be wasting the listing broker’s time as well as my own. ↩︎
  4. This is something I’ve decided to do anyway. I need to qualify these buyers on the phone after I make the appointment. I need to develop a list of qualifying questions and run through that every time. They’re not warm, referral-based leads like I’m used to. To them, I’m the equivalent of a telemarketer, somebody who gets them their real estate showing and unlocks the door. ↩︎
  5. This is not an extreme or unusual example. This happens to me fairly often. Sometimes, people don’t fit into the mold of behavior that I expect them to. I trust this will happen less and less as I gain more experience, but it still gets me. How much money have you lost in commission income from judging the lead? ↩︎
Never Judge the Lead

The Autopsy Report

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Something I learned from an excellent real estate coach named Brian Moses is the importance of reflecting on things that go well and things that don’t. The emphasis was on things that didn’t go well, but it can be applied to positive situations as well.

Brian talked about filling notebook after notebook with what he called “Autopsies.” He would autopsy situations after they were done, in writing, to learn what he could do better next time when the situation presented itself again.

This is based on the professional wisdom that at a certain point, situations we encounter in business aren’t really new. My father-in-law talked about this during his last visit with us. He spoke about how employees that come into his business fit into archetypes and he can predict how well they’ll turn out in many cases because he’s seen and hired and fired the same guy (not literally) before.

Whenever I have a deal die or I have a lead that I feel should have converted but didn’t or when I lose a listing appointment, I autopsy it.

In practice, this basically looks like journaling about the situation. But more specifically, I ask myself where I could have done better, where I was at fault. On further reflection, It’s usually evident where I messed up.

The one that comes to mind is a listing appointment from last summer. They were sort of an odd couple, around my age, and the house was a bit unusual. Mostly because there were something like a half-dozen or more cats living there. There was one bedroom of the five that was actually for the cats.

The people were nice enough. He was a bit more forward, she a bit more reserved. I quickly grew comfortable with them because of our closeness in age. We toured the home, sat at the table, and I went through my presentation. Prior to the presentation, I felt that we had established rapport. I especially felt that way with the man.

Well, I have the unfortunate habit of vulgar speech. It’s rarely a problem in my professional life, but it’s a character handicap inherited from my parents and perfected in the Marines that I’d rather not have. Because I felt especially comfortable with the man, and to a lesser degree with the woman but still comfortable, at some point I began speaking freely as I would with friends.

At the time, it felt pretty natural. There were no adverse reactions, and there may have even been some reciprocity.

I followed up a couple times as it was just a matter of time for them to list. Then one day, she told me that her friend recommended she work with someone and she decided to take her friend’s recommendation. She wasn’t bitter about it, and she was obviously forthcoming and didn’t just ignore me. I asked her point blank if there was something more I could have done to win her business, or, if there was anything I could have done better.

She paused and seemed to consider it, then convincingly said, “No.”

I was a little pissed about the situation. It was in the bag. $12k, gone.

Of course, I hung up congenially enough. But I was hurting.

I thought of Brian. So, I opened a Word doc and wrote through it. It was informative for me. Similar to seeking direction the way I described in yesterday’s post, this is a way that I can uncover stuff that’s holding me back, stuff that I otherwise won’t notice that I’m coming up against.

Here’s the Autopsy Report below as an example:

Autopsy Report
 
(The Person’s Name Was Here)

I interviewed for the listing and she said she was going to clean the house and paint and get her shit out before listing in about a month. I followed up with her after 1 week via text saying, “Just checking in with you. Were you able to connect with Attorney _______ about the capital gains tax question?” She responded saying that she hadn’t had a chance to call him but would hopefully by the end of the week. I asked if she had any other questions or things I could assist with. She said, “No not yet. I’m working on packing and cleaning/painting.”
 
I followed up again two weeks later on 6/21/22 asking her how the painting was going. She responded “Hi, I’m doing good. I’ve just decided to go with a realtor that a friend of mine just used, but thank you for your time and advice.”
 
I asked her if there were any other differentiators besides her friend’s recommendation that helped her decide. She said no, it was just the recommendation.
 
Damn!
 
I could have communicated more often. I let two weeks slip by before I reached back out again. By then it was too late. How do I continue to add value while seller leads are in nurture mode? I didn’t establish sufficient trust for her anyway. I won over the boyfriend, but I didn’t win her over.
 
I swore profusely while I presented to them because I felt comfortable. That was a mistake.
 
My communication is limited to texts and emails on Tuesdays. While that’s a step in the right direction as far as what I’ve otherwise done previously (structure), it’s not a very upbeat rhythm. I need to increase communication, but do it systematically.
 
What else can I do to add value and help to build trust with sellers? Brian would say that I should have left with the client docs signed. Some of these sellers aren’t ready to sign though. I stumbled a little through the presentation too I remember because the listing sheets were the CloudCMA listing sheets and I wasn’t familiar with where some of the details are located on the page. I need to know them like I know my phone number. Even if there was some other factor, she wouldn’t say it. If there was some other factor, she may not even be aware of it. It’s more unconscious. Trust. You increase trust by increasing communication. But how do you increase communication with somebody without coming across as over-the-top? Maybe over-the-top would have been preferable to the bi-weekly texter…
 
She tells me she needs a month to get it ready to list. She finds a new realtor somewhere between week 1 and week 3. I could have called last week. I don’t call. I could have called ever. I could send her listings as they come on market. I could send them the digital pdf version of the report. I could increase the fear and tension rather than putting them at ease. How? By increasing motivation to list sooner because of market conditions worsening. Because of buyers disappearing and becoming more particular as time goes by.
 
The fact of the matter is, she felt no problem with taking another realtor over me and not letting me know. She didn’t care about letting me know because what I was delivering was a commodity service. There was no real relationship there. Nothing to speak of. Now, whether or not this is somebody that you would get lunch with, this is somebody that’s in the market to sell a $400k home. Transactional. She found you (number one) on her own, but then when push came to shove she preferred a referral from a friend of hers who’d just had a positive experience with someone else. You should use your referrals and Success Stories more in your listing presentations.
 
You could ask people who you’ve just helped if they know anyone who’s thinking of buying or selling in the next few months. Other agents do this, and this is part of the reason why they find themselves in these situations and you don’t. You have to learn how to ask for the referral.
 
Pay attention to who gets this listing. Irrespective, note that this is something that you do not know how to do and need to learn how to do. This is a weakness of yours, not a quality of your character.
 
Now don’t beat yourself up. God wants you to learn. Like Yoda said last night, “The greatest teacher, failure is.” Use it.

That’s a good example. I was able to uncover some ideas and insight that I wouldn’t have otherwise. Furthermore, I felt somewhat better after I wrote this out. I put my arms around it, identified where I fell short, and committed to not making those same mistakes twice. To me, this is the work of a pro. We all make mistakes. The question is whether or not we learn from them.

The Autopsy Report

Did I mention follow up?

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There’s a guy who I’ve been calling every week for a while. What’s most surprising to me is that he’s never once been like, “Why are you calling me every week?”. It’s always been a little update even when he’s really saying nothing new.

I’d love to say that I’m just that diligent. I’m not. My client is. I have a buyer client that I represent only in this purchase (which may never happen), and he sends me a gentle text every week on the day that I say I’ll follow up with the seller again.

This began as an invitation to list the property. It’s an 11-unit apartment building in a small town near where I live. I prepared a market analysis without having seen the units, just to give him a down-and-dirty estimate of the value to begin with.

He went cold after we went back and forth a couple of times. I kept on him a bit but my spirits were flagging after about a month or two of checking in.

Then I met Mr. Buyer. He reached out to me cold after finding me on LoopNet, asking if I had any buildings like this one. I told him that I might have a listing coming on with 11 units in it and that it sounds like it would fit what he was looking for quite well actually.

Now I get to call the seller with a purpose! I have a buyer. He listened, intrigued, and asked if this guy had mailed him. He was fascinated that people actually wanted to buy buildings like this now (it had been owned by his LLC and others he owned and partnered on since the late ’70s).

Then he abruptly ended the conversation by saying something similar to “uh-huh, right, right, right, okay. Okay. Good. Sounds good. Good. Yup. See ya later. Bye,” all in fairly quick succession without me saying anything other than “bye” at the end. It’s one way to end a conversation. (It’s also the way he ends every phone conversation, I’ve since learned.)

Fast forward a week. I call again. Little update. Has some other buyers who might be interested (that mailed him last year and who he called). Okay.

My guy decided to submit an offer. Now he’s contractually my guy (on this place anyway). Seller invites me over to see the units. Things are looking promising.

I look at the units. I offer feedback. I inquire about the offer. They express interest but nothing concrete. Still thinking about it.

Another week. I call. Similar thing. The other buyer is working on getting more buyers to partner. Still interested in our offer (but it’s low), just want to see how much they can get for it. Don’t want to expose it to the market because then the tenants will know. That could be messy.

Okay. Next week. I call again.

Gotten keys from some of the units. Many of them are nicer than the ones I saw in person. There’s a lot of potential here. Do I have any idea about building code in this town as it relates to second form of egress? No? Okay. Still thinking about it. Buyers are still trying to find other partners. Bye.

This went on and has gone on now for five months, maybe six?

Every week, I put a new task in my calendar to call this guy. Every week, my client texts me and asks for an update.

Today was that day of the week. I called. Voicemail. I had a challenging day today (as well as yesterday). It’s the end of my day. He calls back. I answer. One of the first things he says is he asks me what the listing fee is. I know where this is going! I answer adeptly and I explain that that includes buyer agency as well. He asks a clarifying question. I explain. Finally! I’ve been at this stupid thing altogether since January (August 29th today), and calling weekly for close to four or five months. I’ve had a tough couple days baby, but this is going to make it all worth it!

He next asks if I know why his buyers backed out.

I say that I don’t. He explains various things regarding the width of one of the stairwells, that there’s a support beam too close to a header and they’ve taken water there before, and something he wasn’t sure about concerning the foundation.

I listen and make understanding noises as he talks.

After 10 minutes of this, he says they still have a lot to think about. He makes no committal indications of anything.

Well, it would have been nice…

What did I do? Cry into my keyboard and wish that my fucking day would lighten just a little bit?

I set the reminder to call him next week.

Did I mention follow up?

Keeping in touch

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You never know who your next customer is going to be. We meet people from all walks of life doing real estate. Furthermore, we frequently encounter people we peripherally know from the place we live who end up working with us.

It’s not uncommon to have a direct buyer call when we have a house for sale. That’s one of the many benefits of having listings. A buyer called me on a listing I had several months ago. I sold this house, not to them, and made it a point to keep in touch.

They were somewhat far away and were a bit wishy-washy about whether they wanted to buy or rent, and if they were going to buy, whether it would be near them or near me. I don’t do much in the way of rentals, but I happened to get a house rental to market that I did as a favor to someone in order to build the relationship. The house loosely fit what they were looking for. So, I reached out to them and just let them know that it was available. Turns out they were out of the country on vacation and couldn’t see it. I offered to do a virtual tour, but they weren’t totally into it. Fine. I leased it to someone else and moved on.

Fast forward another month or two and I’m interviewing for a listing in the same neighborhood as the listing I had earlier in the year. Turns out, this seller really likes the idea of selling off-market rather than going through the hubbub of bringing it to market. They have a work-related situation and they’d rather not have to explain the move prematurely.

I won the listing. Part of what won me the listing was being able to honestly say that I had at least one, and more like three, interested buyers who might be a fit. If they happen to be, this would solve the sellers’ problem and allow them to sell it privately without having to list it publicly for sale. There is the added bonus that it could be a direct buyer and I would double-side the sale. That’s $500,000 @ 6% vs. 3.5%. Not a trivial difference in terms of commission if it all went that way.

Today I brought that buyer through the house. This was our first time meeting in person. It was a good showing and a good meeting. Established good rapport with their family. Very positive. They first called in March. It’ll be September 1st in a few days. They may buy this house, or they may not.

In either case, I’m creating opportunity. We’re so fortunate in real estate because there is so much potential for opportunity. We sell a service that is consumed by a significant portion of the population everywhere. Consequently, there is an abundance of opportunity for business hiding everywhere you look.

I wonder about how many deals I didn’t close because I didn’t keep in touch with everyone that I met. I know it’s a massive number.

The importance of a functional CRM—that we actually use—can’t be overstated, in my opinion, and it’s something I could do a lot better with. But I do keep simple lists of people so I can glance at them and see everyone that’s currently relevant in terms of now business and who I should be touching.

Leads | Active | Contract | Closing | Closed | Let Go | Lost/Didn’t Keep in Touch

I have these categories on a KanBan-style board in Trello like the photo below. When they change stages, I just drag them to the appropriate card (column).

This basic tool is simple enough that I do it pretty consistently. I can glance at this while I’m driving (I’m not perfect), or easily add someone to it from my phone after a meeting. On my desktop in my office, it’s a pinned tab that’s usually always one click away.

I used to keep this same format on a whiteboard in my office. I’d look at it every time I looked up. It’s a practice I may return to again. I’ve found that this is an area where redundancy can be really useful.

Don’t let them slip away. The money is definitely in the follow-up. I just closed buyers (who were also sellers) I’ve been talking to for over two years. I have buyers currently who just emailed me about the listing described in this post that I’ve been talking to since 2019! Keep at ’em.

Keeping in touch